From Manuscript to Bestseller: Inside the World of Publishing with Conni Francini

Join host Erin Brinker and publishing expert Conni Francini as they dive deep into the evolving world of book publishing. Discover the secrets of successful authorship, learn about the challenges writers face, and explore innovative publishing strategies. From children's books to thought leadership titles, this engaging conversation reveals how authors can transform their ideas into compelling stories that resonate with readers. Whether you're an aspiring writer or a book lover, this episode offers fascinating insights into the art and business of publishing.

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Erin Brinker: 0:00

Erin Brinker, welcome everyone. I'm Erin Brinker, and this is the making hope happen radio show. So glad to have you with me today, on this beautiful summer day, I got to talk about what just happened in public broadcasting, the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, and that is where the federal dollars that they put in for NPR and PBS, they go into the CPB, and then the CPB distributes it, distributes it to the various TV and radio stations. So the funding for that organization has been cut, has been well, they're not getting any funding anymore, so now they're shutting down, and they've been in they've been around for, well, since LBJ was president, so 60 years Crazy, right? So the House of Representatives passed a $9 billion funding cut to public media and foreign aid last month, 1.1 billion of those dollars were supposed to go to the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, which then would then send it out to the various NPR and PBS stations, both television and radio. And, you know, there was an effort people writing letters, people calling their congress people, congressmen and women. And it just didn't matter. See, the CPB has informed its employees that the majority of its staff will be let go as of September, as the end of September, except a small transition team who will remain through January 2026 to ensure close out of operations. So this was created by Congress in 1967 and it has distributed more than $500 million annually to the PBS and NPR stations, and that's 1500 of them located around the country. And the Trump administration has just said it's too biased. There's no reason for us to be paying for this anymore. And he said, No more. So they've also filed a lawsuit. The Trump administration has filed a lawsuit, this is, according to Reuters, against three board members of the CPB who have not left their post despite Trump's attempt to fire them. Perhaps he doesn't have the power to fire them. Honestly, I haven't seen the charter, so I have no idea, but it will be interesting to watch. So if you are a fan of nonprofit radio, and if you're listening to this show on terrestrial radio, we're on a nonprofit station. It is not a NPR station, but it is a nonprofit station. And you know, please give because that helps people get the word out about whatever it is they're talking about, whether it's not profits, public, you know, anything that you might be interested in hearing about, listening to good music, all of that. It also keeps news local. You know, we have so much corporate run media in the in the country. And on the two stations on which this show airs, X 95.7 and kql h, which is 92.5 both in Inland Southern California, they play local there may be some national news, but they also play local news, and that's really important. So with that, it's time for our guest Well, anybody who knows me knows that I am a huge bibliophile. Over the course of my career, I have interviewed so many authors I can't even count, and it's been such a joy for me. Today is the first time I'm interviewing a publisher, and I am totally fan girling. Connie francini is the CEO of the of sorrow publishing, a leading hybrid publisher and Brand Builder, transforming the author experience. As a 25 year publishing veteran, she specializes in content development, marketing and publicity for authors in K 12, education, business and leadership. With a proven track record of publishing market leading and award winning books, she is dedicated to elevating thought leaders and their brands. She is frequently or she frequently shares publishing insights through podcasts and industry events. So podcasts, of course, just like this one. Connie francini, welcome to the show.

Conni Francini: 4:05

Thank you for having me. Erin, I'm so excited to talk to a fellow bibliophile and book lover.

Erin Brinker: 4:11

You know, I people say that that that publishing, you know, the people aren't reading any books anymore, and they're all online. And that is so not true. I know so many people who just, we get together and we talk about books, fiction and nonfiction. And, you know, people are definitely still reading

Conni Francini: 4:27

Absolutely, I'm in a book club every every month, talking with a group of women, reading nonfiction, fiction, historical books, all kinds of things. And I will tell you just very anecdotally, was recently in New York City rode, you know, lots of subway rides, and there were a lot of people on those subways, on the metro reading books, real, physical, physical printed books. You know, standing young people, older people. It was so exciting to see so for. You know, year I've been in publishing for so long, and you know, that was really the message of a while ago. Is, you know, prino, this is the end of print. You know, print is dying. And, I mean, that had to be at least 15 years ago. And here we are today. Print books are still alive and well, thank goodness.

Erin Brinker: 5:14

So tell us about who you are. How did you find your way into publishing?

Conni Francini: 5:19

So I started out my career actually in journalism. My My undergraduate degree is in journalism, and started out in public relations and kind of the marketing side of things, and made a segue into the K 12 education space. And then ended up, if you picture, sort of a Venn diagram right of of Publishing and Communications and PR on one side and education on the other. I ended up at a publishing an educational publishing company, and it was sort of the, you know, best of both worlds, bringing these two things together. And spent about 15 years at that publishing company, the last seven of which I served as the editor in chief and led the whole product development, you know, book development, publishing department. And really, really loved the what I found, I really loved about it was, it's such a creative process, right? There's no it's not like making a widget. You know, even though we had great processes, everything, every project was something new. There was something new, a different aspect and a way to kind of bring your own creativity to those projects. So just love the time that I had there. Was so proud of so much of the work that we had done. And then, just before covid stepped away and started launching my own consulting company, and then, a year ago, stumbled across a couple of very organic conversations about published authors experiences with publishing, and heard a need and wanted to fulfill the need. And so that's where my newest publishing company was born.

Erin Brinker: 6:54

Excellent so Soro publishing is really focused on educators, teaching and that sort of that that sector. Because, you know, there there are massive publishing houses that have, like the Penguin Random, Random House, and the Simon and Schuster etc, that kind of do everything. But then there are those that are focused on particular markets, and yours is education? Is that correct? Yeah, education is, is

Conni Francini: 7:18

definitely one of our core focuses. And because I had come from, you know, I was a classroom teacher. I was a an instructional specialist working with teachers. So I have that knowledge of, you know, that audience, if you will, as well as having worked at a traditional model, a legacy model, educational publishing house, so can bring that expertise. And so that's really where that education space became one of our core areas.

Erin Brinker: 7:46

So how did you land your first author? And what was that relationship like,

Conni Francini: 7:52

goodness, we have been just so grateful to worked with. I mean, the first couple of authors that we launched with are folks that I was lucky enough to have had some sort of, you know, relationship with, and being able to to, you know, really show this is, this is the experience that we have. This is the value that we can bring and and really offering that different, you know, that different experience for authors. So really, what it what it came down to was, there was this segment of of authors out there who really wanted to do, create something great, right? Create something of value, create something that was, that was of quality, and but that traditional publishing side, you know, has its benefits. There's really some great things. And for some authors, that's really, you know, the end all goal for them, but it also has some drawbacks and limitations and sources of frustration. At the same time, the self publishing side of things has exploded and created this whole new path for authors, which I think is great. I'm in favor of that I love, I love that there are more paths now for authors, you know, more choices, more options now than ever before. And I think that is, I think that that's a wonderful evolution in the industry. For some authors, or some aspiring authors, that feels a bit a bit a bit like a black hole of, you know, things to Google and things to learn. And, you know, one author had told me early on, I'm, I'm sure I could figure it all out, but I have zero, you know, interest in in doing that. So, you know, I really want someone who, who kind of gets it, who's been there and done that, who can help, you know, be a partner and guide me along the way, so that that is sort of the the genesis of, like, how those first authors ended up, you know, coming our ways, because they really, they really didn't feel like they they fit with either end of the spectrum in publishing, and wanted something sort of in the middle, you know,

Erin Brinker: 9:53

you hear about, and I'm going to use the JK Rowling example. Then she submitted and was rejected, and said. And was rejected over and over and over again, and when fun Finally, somebody recognized how incredible her book was, or, you know, the very first Harry Potter book. I mean, it's they published, and it exploded and and I wonder, you know, people that the idea of, you know, finding an agent and pitching, pitching your book, and, you know, making sure that that it reaches the right audience and that that it's edited properly. And I mean, that process for an author that's gotta be overwhelming for them, that whole world,

Conni Francini: 10:32

yeah, so definitely on, you know, on that traditional side, the the market overall, is, is sort of collapsing, right? There's, there's just a few of these really big, you know, Legacy publishing houses, and then there are lots of of smaller, you know, more more niche, more independent houses, but those big legacy publishers, you know, the people that want authors that, you know, want to be the next. JK Rowling, it's really, it's really tough, you know, it is really kind of like winning

Erin Brinker: 11:03

the lottery, yeah, comes down to who, you know, I'm sure

Conni Francini: 11:05

it, it's so one thing that definitely plays an important role now that that didn't before, but is it really just a big factor now, is, is the author's platform? You know, if you are Oprah Winfrey or you are Prince Harry. You know, there's sure those big houses want you, because you are known right you have right platform, and you have a huge visibility, you have huge marketability. Almost doesn't matter what you write, in a way, because you have this huge platform. Well,

Erin Brinker: 11:36

it's evidence about what's been put out by Harry and Megan, which is really not been quality at all, and yet, here they are,

Conni Francini: 11:43

alright, and that's not discounting the work that those publishing houses do. But my point is that, you know, I mean, I've spoken with authors who've said, I've, you know, I've pitched my on my own, or I've had my agent pitch, and, you know, they've come back to me and said, We won't do it because you don't have enough of of a following. You don't have enough of a platform. You know your social media following is too low. You're you know, you don't have a big enough email list be one. I'll give a specific example of of someone who an author I spoke to early in this sort of research process for for this new company, who had already published with a smaller, but a traditional publishing house a few years ago and and was ready to come out with a second book, went back to that publisher, and they said, you have to have an agent. Okay, great. She went and got an agent, and then went with that agent, you know, back to that publishing house to pitch this new book, and was told, No, not going to do a second book because you're, you're following, you know, isn't, isn't big enough. You don't have a big enough platform. So, and this is an author who had already published with them, so this is a real challenge now, and this is a conversations that we're having with folks who are like, Oh, I'm, you know, this is my first book. You know, what should I be doing? Building your author is really important. No matter what path you're choosing. It doesn't matter what path in publishing, you know, you end up having a platform is really important.

Erin Brinker: 13:11

So, and, you know, I think that, and I don't know how this works, so I'm going to ask a question that could be totally wrong, but the it would seem to me that it's the publisher, it's they're the ones that have the marketing money. They're the ones that have the marketing strength. So if they're not promoting the especially person who's already published with them before, if they're not promoting that book, if they're not helping to grow their author, isn't that their role?

Conni Francini: 13:37

It is cynical and however comma, as my high school English teacher sister would say, it really is. I think that's a that's a great question, because that is a misunderstanding of even that traditional publishing model. Yes, the publisher, that traditional model, part of that model is the publisher has, you know, an established identity. They have, you know, a footprint, they have a customer base, they have a mailing list, you know, they they have the ability to reach that audience, right? And that is a value. But even those traditional publishers still expect their authors to be supporting the book as well, you know, to be promoting it on social, on their own, on social media. They're, you know, they're, in some, in some cases, a traditional house, you know, will pay for a publicity tour, or, you know, author bookstore events. Sometimes they'll pay for a segment of those, but the author still is expected to, you know, engage in that promotion and marketing of that book, just, you know, just as, just as much, right? Because it's still their book. I think the so that, that misunderstanding, that question that you asked is is one that you. I think, has been a source of frustration for some authors who've been down that traditional path, right? It's like, you know, I gave you this book, and, you know, you're the one who really sort of owns the, you know, a lot of the engine right behind this, and a lot of the financial benefit on the other side, yes, my understanding would, you know, I would think you as the publisher, are going to be, you know, kind of the primary driver of that. And they do, they should do a significant part. But even in that model, the the authors really do, you know, need to be promoting it on their own. Need to be, you know, seeking their own opportunities and building, building their own visibility and promoting that book as well. Bro, what promoting

Erin Brinker: 15:38

those things? What do you do if you don't know how to do that. You're, you know, I mean, I'm thinking of, I've met, I've talked to a lot of authors, and, you know, they, they're not the most extroverted group of people. And so I the what if you don't know how to do that, or you don't have a team, you don't have the financial wherewithal, especially with your first book, to be able to hire people to do it. What do you

Conni Francini: 16:01

do? Yeah. So I was having this conversation with with the an author the other day, and I said, you know, the question is, really, where do you what would you do on your own, versus, what would you outsource? So my answer to this author was, what are, what do you feel comfortable with, right? So, what's the marketing? The marketing the marketing that you can do successfully is the marketing that you will actually do. So if you are not, you know, maybe you're not the the, you know, Queen of social media. Don't try to do that yourself. But maybe you are, maybe you're great at writing, you know, blogs or about your area of expertise. Or maybe you really enjoy going and speaking to, you know, small groups in person that doesn't scare you, right? And you're really right with that. Maybe you are, if you're a children's book author, you know, you enjoy going out and speaking to to, you know, to students in libraries or in schools. And so I would say to those authors, is lean into and build in the areas where you feel comfortable, and then, then you look to fill in the gaps with areas that where you feel less strong. Right? Then bring somebody in who, if you don't know how to use Instagram or Tiktok, and you feel like your audience is on there, get somebody who knows what they're doing to help you come in and do that piece and stay true to kind of like what your natural strengths are.

Erin Brinker: 17:26

It reminds me of the music industry. When you know the that you bands go in in LA, you're playing the whiskey, you have to fill up that room. That's incumbent upon the band to fill up that room. And so, yes, you get the opportunity to play in this amazing venue, it's amazing, historic venue, but you got to fill it up. It's not just, you know, you're there and they'll all come and so that's, that's, that's a part of the business that people don't generally think

Conni Francini: 17:52

about, yeah, that's a great analogy, because obviously the the event space is, is likely to promote that right in their own social media, through their emailing list, right? They're going to say, hey, we're going to be having XYZ band come so they're doing their part to promote it. But you, you know, still, as the person, as the band coming in, you also, you know, just as importantly, need to be promoting it as well. It really is a, you know, it's a, it's a collaboration, right? It really is, and that's how it's going to be most successful, because, especially now, because there's so much out there in the market, you know, I forget the statistic, but there's, I don't know, you know, 1000 new titles on the market every day. Or, I mean, my goodness, but it's, yeah, it's like a crazy number of, you know, the volume of content that's out there is, pretty wild. So you know, you you're competing with with a lot of other people. So it really takes, you know, a lot of effort collaboratively.

Erin Brinker: 18:48

So I'm thinking about nonfiction authors, their their audience might be easier to define. So if you are writing a book about special education, and you're, then you're, you're going to go to reach out to people who run selpas. You're going to reach out to people who you know, maybe the Inland Regional or the one of the regional centers in your area. You're going to reach out to groups that that have kind of a built in audience and and and move from there, maybe you are at an event for them. Maybe you you'll say, hey, I'll be your public speaker to free, if for free, if I could sell my book or whatever, if you're writing fiction, that's a different animal, and it may, you know, I guess I don't know how I would approach it if, if my book, if I'm trying to promote my book, that's a fiction, fiction versus nonfiction,

Conni Francini: 19:34

great question, because it's not, it's not a cookie cutter. One size fits all. So on the nonfiction side, you're absolutely right. You're really and we can even back up a little bit further thinking about, you know, why would you write a nonfiction book if you're in theory, that's usually, oftentimes, least the authors we're working with. It's meant to support their business. Somehow, they're a marketing consultant. They're. Education Consultant. They are, you know, they have a leadership coaching company. They're writing a book that is, you know, sort of their area of expertise, and it works alongside, you know, speaking and, you know, coaching programs, or, you know, consulting work, that sort of thing. On that side, you're really just niching to that audience, right to your very point. It's, it's what industry events are happening, you know, where, where are these people all going to be? Right? You're marketing specifically to them, and that in that you go into their trade shows, you're speaking at their conferences, that kind of stuff. You're probably writing a lot of blogs, you know, sharing your expertise. You're writing guest articles, you're getting on podcasts, where those listeners are going to be. You know that it's that's really that clear focus. So on the fiction side, it's more of a general, even more of a broader general trade audience. But you still want to think about who that audience is. So did you write a you know, we don't, we don't really specialize in fiction. But I can tell you from, you know, from knowing the space that you know, if you write a fiction book that's geared toward women, you know, obviously you want to, you know, where, what social media platforms do you want to be on? Right? You're going to be on Pinterest, you're going to be on Pinterest, you're going to be on, you know, going to be on Instagram, you're going to be going to, you know, maybe women's focused events in your community, right? That's going to kind of tailor what that what that looks like if you write a children's book, you're going to be trying to get out to speak to, you know, do author events at schools, to maybe be working with, you know, kids focused, you know, nonprofits or other activities summer camps, or, you know, YMCA programs, or, you know, literacy programs in a in a large urban city that you might be able to get a part of. Get a part of library events right there's, we're in summertime right now recording this, and there's a lot of you know, summer literacy, reading challenges going on through library programs and and school districts and things like that, that you could be a part of. You know, you're you're probably not releasing thought leadership blogs. If you're a children's author, right, you're really writing, you know, kids focused, you might be writing more contests, more giveaways. One of my favorite children's authors is Kwame Alexander. I don't know if you follow Kwame, worked with him years ago, and one of the fun things he does is he he does like these surprise visits. Oh, he goes and he so he records himself. Remember the old, what was that old? Those old commercials where they would, they would show up at your door and give you a million

Erin Brinker: 22:32

dollars. Oh, yeah, that's publishers.

Conni Francini: 22:35

It's kind of like that. So he will record himself on social media, you know, going to someone's door and, you know, and meeting a fan, a kid, right? And dropping in and bringing them a book and talking with them, and that these are people. These are kids who've, you know, asked right, to be considered for this visit. But this is so that's the kind of thing you're going to do, right, as a children's author, right? That's that gets kids super excited. You know, they want to be the one who's going to have their favorite author. Favorite author show up at their doorstep one day and sit and chat with them for 15 minutes in their living room. So, oh, that would be so cool. So cool, I know. And I just geek out watching it, you know, watching watching him do that on social media, because we just see the the light, you know, the slight and the kids face when their favorite author shows up at their doorstep. Really, really cool. So you know that marketing and promotion, it really needs to be tailored to your audience, right? So there's no one size fits all Absolutely. There's no you have to do X or you have to do Y. You really need to to choose your promotional activities based on your audience. You're trying to really, what you're trying to do is support your audience and build your community. Whoever is, whoever it is that's part of that community.

Erin Brinker: 23:49

You know, our marketing in general has become so individualized that it's really about a brand, whatever that brand is developing, developing a relationship with its consumers. And it's no I would assume that it's exactly the same in the publishing world.

Conni Francini: 24:04

Absolutely, I mean, and that's interesting, because the idea of, you know, what is your what is your brand, you know, feels a little bit to some people like a marketing I don't know, jibber jabber. You know what? You know, I wrote a book. What do you mean? What is my brand? But it really is. It really is important for authors to to be a, I think, be aware of, you know, what that what their brand is, and take some time to kind of be thoughtful about, you know, what their brand is. Are you, you know? Are you? Are you friendly and accessible? You know, are you? Are you have this, more of this, you know, kind of elusive, sort of, you know, mysterious brand. Are you know? Are you the trusted advisor? You know? Kind of, what is your your persona, really in that space? Because, as. I said. But you know, as we were kind of talking about a few minutes ago, there's just so much on the market, yeah,

Erin Brinker: 25:05

there really is.

Conni Francini: 25:06

You have to have a way to to be remembered. That's what it really is. Your brand is really how you want to be remembered. You know, somebody says your name. What do people think of? What do they think about? Right? So, you know, let's talk about, let's say, leadership, non fiction readers. So someone like, or business, you know, Gary Vaynerchuk is, you know, very brash, right, very kind of irreverent. That's his brand. Whereas someone like, like John Maxwell, who's very, very focused on leadership, has, has that sort of wise, you know, that sort of sense of like, the the wisdom, that sense of like encouragement. And it's a very different they have. Those two have very different brands, they

Erin Brinker: 25:57

do, and they're going to appeal to different people. Exactly, that's exactly, right? Um,

Conni Francini: 26:03

yeah, because if you appeal to everyone, you appeal to no

Erin Brinker: 26:06

one, you appeal to no one, exactly, exactly, then you begin, you know, because who wants to be a commodity, right? Then that's that people could, could come and go, like, take it or leave it. I don't want to be that person. I want to connect with the people who are aligned with

Conni Francini: 26:20

me. Yeah, you kind of want your brand to be, you want it to be a filter, right? Here's who stays, and here's, here's who, here's who doesn't, here's, here's who goes, right? And that's okay. And that's okay because if you're, if you are for everyone, you're really for noone. There's nothing, there's nothing sticky to hold on to, right? That that really draws your your your people, your audience, to you in the right way. If you were just some nondescript, you know, leadership person. You know, who do you anchor those people to? But you know when I say, when I say, you know, Jocko willing, right? Versus John Maxwell. Those are two completely different, you know, two completely different brands, and people are going to be naturally attracted to kind of one, you know, or the other, or someone else completely. And that's important. That's definitely important.

Erin Brinker: 27:15

So I have to tell you that that you you have kind of triggered something in me. There's a lot of people out there. I go on LinkedIn, and it's remarkable how many people call themselves visionary and leaders, and you look at their picture like you're look like you look like you're 25 you may be amazing, but you have not been on this earth long enough to call yourself a visionary or, you know, whatever. And so there's a lot of people making a lot of noise in this space. So, you know, as a as a publisher, you have to discern, you know, what are you going to what are you going to take on, and what are you not? So, what is your process? If somebody comes to you and they're, they're ready to write a book, or they've already written a book, and they want to engage you as a publisher, yeah.

Conni Francini: 27:58

So we are in our hybrid model, we take some aspects of that traditional publishing model, and so we are submissions based publisher. So we don't we don't just publish anybody who wants to publish a book. We are selective about the kinds of projects we want to work on and the kinds of authors we want to work with. So we do accept submissions through our website and then evaluate, you know, the overall marketability. Why is this book needed? Why is this book needed now, what makes this book different or unique, right? And how, how can this book be successful in the market. And what is, just as importantly, why is this author a good fit, right for this book, and you know, and what do they bring to a potential partnership and collaboration? I think one of the unique aspects of of what we do is we aren't expecting only to work with the opras and the prince Harry's of the world, right? We, we are happy to work with folks who are, you know, earlier in their publishing, Author Platform journey. But if they're if they're committed to it, and they're really passionate about their message and their work, and really, you know, building their brand and building their business, we're happy to to build alongside them as well. So we look at all of those factors, and if it's something that we want to pursue, we have a conversation with the with the author, explore a little bit more deeply before we would submit and share a publishing offer with them. So, so it looks really similar to the traditional model. I would say it's, it's pretty similar to that. You know, in the steps that happened there, we really kind of pulled from from that process, because we felt that was important, right to publish something that we felt we could really stand behind as well. So,

Erin Brinker: 29:59

dope. People, do people fit? Have to submit a completely finished, completely fully edited, this is ready to go book, or can they send you a solid draft and then get feedback from you? How does that work? Yeah, that's a

Conni Francini: 30:14

really good question. So there's really kind of two, two answers to that our Again, our focus is really in this education business and nonfiction space. So in that realm, secret to share with with with any listeners out there who are thinking about this, whether you're whether you're pursuing us, or even even other traditional publishers or other hybrid publishing companies for non fiction, it's actually preferred that you don't have the entire book written. Seriously, yeah, you don't need it. And it's actually better in many ways, that you don't have an entire book written. What's more important is that you, as a in submitting your your proposal, your proposed book, that you actually have a better what's important is that you have a good understanding of who are you writing this book for? What is the problem that's out there, right? And this is on the non fiction space. I'm thinking thought leadership side, right, right? What's the problem? Who's the audience? What's the problem you're addressing? Do you know what your competitors are, the competitor titles that are out there, and what makes your book different, and why you Why are you? You know what makes you you know a good person to you know, to write about this topic. What unique things do you bring to it that hopefully are somehow aligned to what you think this book is, how you think this book is unique out in the market? That's actually more important, wow, an outline or a table of contents, and then usually, you know, a sample chapter is great, but there, there actually the the submissions process is, is really a product development question. That's what it is you're pitching an idea. It's you're pitching an idea, right? Why should and so. And I think this sounds a little yucky for people who are thinking about but this is my knowledge. You know, this is my expertise. I get it because, you know, I've, I've, you know, developed books and products and things all the way from the beginning, including things that I was super, just myself, just super, super passionate about. And you feel like it's all about the knowledge, but the submission process is really pitching a product, right? Who is it for? You know, what's the problem that's out there that you're that you're aiming to solve? How is this better than any competitors that are out there, right? And specifically for a book, why? You as a nonfiction author, right? I couldn't write a book about, you know, managing invest investments, right? I don't have any expertise there, right? That's not my area of expertise. So having that match, and you'd be surprised. We've gotten, we've gotten pitches from people who, you know, have an idea for a book, not necessarily a bad idea, and I guess they could write it, but they're, they're really known for this other area of expertise. It's like, why aren't you writing this book? You know, this is really where expertise is, what's the, what's the gap that's out there, what's the misunderstanding that you could speak about. So that's a great that's a great question.

Erin Brinker: 33:23

So I have to think that that that process has to be pretty humbling to the to the author, the person who's pitching to come back and say, you know, Mr. Cust, or Mr. Author, you know you are an expert in, you know, marine biology, and now you're talking about special education, where's the leap? How does that? How does that work? And he's like, Well, I'm amazing. I have this great career you do in marine biology, right,

Conni Francini: 33:50

right? It's, it's, and we don't get that a lot, but we have, and we have seen that kind of like mismatch between the author and what their their proposal is. But I think that, you know, to kind of go back to your the earlier part of your question is, you know, what do you do? What does that look like when they submit something? Are we happy to provide feedback? We do absolutely. I always tell authors, you know, I want you to be less, especially if I have a conversation with them and they say, Well, I think I'm not this idea, you know, is, do you think it's worth submitting? And I tell authors, at least our perspective, our approaches, I would rather see your idea imperfect, and give create the opportunity, allow the opportunity for for there to be. You know, Hey, I see what the nuggets are right now, I see the potential in it, and I I'm less concerned with having, you know, every little element, just so rather than finding potential somewhere, right because I looked at, I mean, I've been publishing for 20 years, I've, I say, 1000s, it might be 10s of 1000s of. Submissions. But for sure, 1000s of submissions. My job is to, that's my that's my job. That's what I do. I It's my ability to look at something and say, actually, you know, it's not this proposal isn't quite articulating it the right way. But yes, this is actually a real issue. I see the, I see there's something unique in here. We'd have to hone it a little bit, but I feel like I see this, you know, the potential in here. That's what we bring to it, right? That's as as a, you know, as a publisher. We we bring that expertise and that ability to, kind of, like, draw out some of that. We just need something to to start from, so to speak. So have you ever

Erin Brinker: 35:37

had a customer or a client or a, you know, an author that you're working with, where they pitched one thing, and through your conversations, you decided mutually to take it in a different direction.

Conni Francini: 35:46

Yeah, absolutely. Just did that last week with someone who's Yeah, who submitted something. And got on the phone, I was like, you know, I mean, this is yes, I you know, I see the potential, but you know, I've done a little research on you, and then kind of hearing you talk, you know, I feel like this, this book is the thing, right? This is where it is. And then the more we kind of just talked about it, you can feel the level of energy, you know, you have those conversations, and you feel the level of energy kind of going up and up. It's like, it's spiraling, right? We're like, oh. And then this Oh, and then that, you know, and then, what about this? And so, so now, yes, so now we're, we're continuing that conversation in a different

Erin Brinker: 36:27

I bet that's fun.

Unknown: 36:28

It's really fun. I mean, that's what I said, like, it's just, it's so creative. You know, there's, there is no it. This is, we're not building a widget. Everything is is different. Every topic is different. Every author is different. And it's so fun to partner with folks who are, you know, really passionate about the work they're doing, the mission that they're creating, you know, the movements that they're building and help kind of draw out, you know, what, what could be the kind of the best, most exciting publishing path

Erin Brinker: 37:04

for now. Have you written a book?

Conni Francini: 37:07

I haven't, but we're working on one right now.

Erin Brinker: 37:10

Excellent, yeah,

Conni Francini: 37:13

excellent, yeah,

Erin Brinker: 37:15

you know, you hear the beta reader for me, Yeah, I'd love to. That'd be amazing. I would totally do that. I would totally do that. You know, I think about how many people dream of becoming the great American author, you know, whether it's fiction or nonfiction, and and they sit down to write. And, you know, in some, in some ways, writing is like giving birth, right? You have you. You have to think about, what do you want to say, and how do you want to say it, and what is that structure, and what is your tone? And you know, if you're in in the fiction world, what is your point of view? Is it first person or third person? I guess in non fiction as well, you know, how do you want to tell that story? Because really, it's, it's all tell. Still, it's all storytelling, you know, and that that kind of iterative, iterative process has to be very compelling and very interesting to work with authors through that. Yeah, it is the,

Conni Francini: 38:10

I love the that word iterative, right? Because it, it is not a, there is, there is a somewhat linear process. You know, you start with zero words in your manuscript, and you know at some point that word count increases until it's done, right? So there is some sense of a linear process, but it is a creative endeavor, naturally. So it is sometimes you do, we do get, you know, five steps down the road and we go, this isn't coming together the way we envisioned. Or now we have this we somehow stumbled upon this other, you know, idea or inspiration, or we uncovered this gap. We need to kind of backtrack a little bit right and to put things back together in a different way. I think that process is exciting. That's what I love about it. It can be, it can be hard for it can be, it can't you can feel scary. It can feel like I didn't do it right? You know, I feel like I made a mistake. I don't know what I'm doing. So, you know, I always say, I've always said to authors that I've worked with closely in that editorial process, you know, my job, from the editorial perspective, is to is to make you and your book and this content the best that it can be. So when I'm, you know, I want you to just really hold on to that mindset that every time I'm coming back with, you know, hey, I'm not sure this is coming together clearly or, Hey, I think we should, you know, we should change this character here. I think we should explain your framework differently. It's really with loving care for. You and your work, right? And it's, it's so that they don't feel like it's this, the proverbial red pen, right, right? That's back in the day, you know, that's all we use. Was we marked it up with a red pen, and it was really, you know, it was really a little bit yucky for, I think, for

Erin Brinker: 40:20

people to look, yeah, because that's your, that's your, your heart and soul on that page. It's your baby. It is, you know, I have read books that that it seems when you know, I'm a linear thinker, and when I say, and not that, I can't think strategically, I can, but I tend to see, you know, because I write grants and other proposals and and for the nonprofit that I work for, the making hope happen Foundation, and I'm it's like, where do I want to go? How do I want to get there? And how do I want to tell that story and that, that you, you, you have to line for me. I have to line that, all of that up before I can start writing. I've read books that are, I will say, disorganized, and I can't follow them. You know that it is the tone or the tenor or the or the cadence is probably a better word changes with each and unless you you you're changing the point of view intentionally, and you're telling your people that you're changing that point of view, it just feels disjointed. And so that voice becomes really important in from my point of view, otherwise, it's difficult to follow.

Conni Francini: 41:25

Absolutely we, you know, one of the things that this is one of the reasons, especially on the nonfiction side, why we tell authors we really prefer that you you know that you don't try to write 60,000 words on your own because it's hard. It's hard to do it. I mean, I've 20 years in publishing, I've never received a manuscript that didn't need editing. Just that's just not how it works, right there. That's the value of having, you know, experienced editorial support that's going to make your work better. An author's role is to bring their knowledge, expertise, ideas, vision, creativity, whatever it is right to that, to that book, to that project, the on the editorial side, our job is to make it better, right? And you need that. You need that partnership between, you know, between the two. So, you know, we prefer actually to again, work with authors before they've even started to do just what you said. Erin, we before we was telling we're not You're not even put one word on on the manuscript. Don't start typing anything until we really have clear, gotten clear on who is this audience, right? Specifically, right, not just women, not just executives, not just, you know, whatever generation, right? Not just k 12 educators. There, there's, there's gotta be more. So let's really articulate, you know, who that audience is. Let's really get clear on what the problem is that we're addressing. You know, what's the need? Why do we need this? Why does anybody care that we need this out here? You know, what is really, truly unique about, about, you know, your offering and and specifically in like, you know, education, business and leadership is like, what's your solution? Do you have a framework, or do you have a model, or do you have a unique perspective or a unique approach? There has to be something that kind of ties together your knowledge and information. Otherwise, it's just a book of 60,000 words that doesn't mean anyone. And especially I love that you said storytelling, because this is something that I think is so important, especially in non fiction, where people, I think, as authors, we don't realize we are taking readers on a journey. We are a transformation. And that sounds kind of fufu in a way, you know, for what I'm writing a book about, you know about social, emotional learning and education, yes, but you are, you should be taking your readers on a journey of you're here, and this is the frustration you have, yes, right? Why you're feeling overwhelmed, or this is why you feel like you keep hitting a wall, or this is why you, you know, you keep trying these things and they're not working right. Something is missing, and we have the answer. So come along with us and read this book, right? And read what we have to offer. Read what we, you know, what we what we propose you do, how you should approach this instead, in your classrooms or with your teachers, for example, and on the other side of that, you know this is hopefully how you and your your teachers, or your your school community should, should feel right or be right as a result of this. And that's a journey. That's a story.

Erin Brinker: 44:31

It it totally is, and it's, it's something that I need to relate to, and it and it there has to be, it has to be actionable. There's nothing more frustrating than reading a book. And you get to the end, you're like, I don't know what to do with that. You know, I want to have give me steps, meaning, you know, tell me your stories, tell me your tell me why this is important, and then tell me how to do it. If you're talking about, you know, non fiction, and I and the what I'm I'm thinking of Stephen Covey. I'm a huge Steven. Heavy fan, you know, he tells stories of his families and in a business, and they're all, they're all, you know, short vignettes, but there are things that we can all relate to. And and he is, he distilled down these basic seven habits into something that everybody can do, everybody can understand, everybody can get their brain around. And so it was, you can take something of what you can you can put it into action in your own life right away.

Conni Francini: 45:24

Erin, are you in my brain? Some of these conversations that I have with authors, I actually share seven habits as a great example with folks so often, because it's such a great example of a compelling, effective, impactful book. Indeed, how many other productivities or personal effectiveness books do you think are on the market?

Erin Brinker: 45:51

Oh, 1000s, millions. There's a gazillion, there's a gazillion.

Conni Francini: 45:56

There's so many, right? There are so many. What makes this this Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, so memorable. What makes it so? Why do people want to buy this book? I mean, yes, everyone talks about it, right? But why? Why part of it is, he's distilled it into seven habits. Yes, right. So there is, and I so I tell authors, I said, I know this sounds kind of, it sounds funny, but this is the, this is the marketing lane of of the kind of traditional publishing support, right? That's part of that side of things that that, I think authors, they you just like it kind of goes over your head. You don't quite realize it, right? And he could have written a book just talking about being a, you know, an effective person, yes, you know, with 1215, chapters. But he didn't. This book is seven habits, right? What is the table of contents? I'm just flipping it open right now in my office. It's the seven habits. It's the seven habits, and there's a thought process to why they're in this order. You know, the first one, the first group is the internal, right? And then the second group is the more external, and then the seventh one is the sharpening the saw, which means you go, kind of continue, like through these, and you continue to make these better. You elevate these, right? It is so simple and so easy to remember and so easy to organize this information for for readers, this is why this is a great example. Indeed.

Erin Brinker: 47:28

It reminds me of a cookbook where they say, you know, using things in your own kitchen, you can create this wonderful dish. And the first thing on there is like yak milk. And, you know, vegetables picked in, you know, from Tibet in, you know, whatever things that you'll never be able to find, and techniques that you're never able to use, and you're just like, yeah, I This looks delicious, but I'm going to have to go to a, you know, a chef to be able to get to find out what this tastes like, because this is way above my pay grade, right?

Conni Francini: 47:58

I'm all for practical. I have I tell people my, you know, my grandparents are from the Midwest. I have a very kind of casserole mentality. You know, everything should be practical, everything should be doable. Everything should be actionable. You know, dissertations are for PhD programs, and that's great. But the you know, people reading, you know, books to to gain new knowledge, whether that's in, you know, k 12 education, or, you know, business or leadership, or what have you, they want to learn something, right? And so to, in my experience, great non fiction, thought leadership books, you know, ones where you're trying to learn something, they have three elements. The first is the why? Why is this important? Why does this matter? You know, why? Why this approach? Sometimes there's, like, research or statistics kind of behind that. And why are you doing this thing? Why? The second part is the how, you know, like, What's your general approach? What are some of the strategies? Like, how do you approach? How do you approach this thing? And just as importantly, we need some of the what and the what can be those great vignettes so that you can see an example. Take, you know, education, for example. You know, here's how you can improve vocabulary for English language learners. For example, it'd be great to see a vignette of that, right, read a vignette of what does that really look like in a first grade classroom, right? If the book is marketed to, you know, to secondary well, then you shouldn't have a first grade story in there, right? You're going to want example stories from middle school and high school, but including those vignettes gives your readers the what, oh, I see what this looks like, yeah. Or steps, some steps to follow. Or, I love a good reflection. I love a, you know, end of the chapter, reflection, you know, two or three questions to just really help readers, like, take a breath and, you know, reflect on what they've learned. Maybe take action on one or two really simple steps to kind of put them in motion. The best books that I've read, the ones I recommend to people, the ones I use as a. Examples follow that model in some way. There's no one way to, you know, to bring that together in a book, but I feel like that's where I've seen the most success. They these, these kinds of books all address the why, the how in the what, in some combination that. That combination, I think, gives readers the best you know, kind of learning and transformation experience.

Erin Brinker: 50:26

So let's shift gears a little bit and talk about some of the authors that you are working on, working with rather now we've talked to Doctor Danita Grissom on this show and her high five to thrive and and super excited about that, but you've got some children's books on your website, a gift called Shane and a dog and his boy the switch. Tell us about about those authors and tell us about those books.

Conni Francini: 50:50

Yeah. So I'm so excited that you were able to chat with with Dr Janita Grissom. Their their work has been super, super fun. Much needed. Again, I'm a former classroom teacher, and know that that work that they're doing is so important right now. Educators are really, you know, really things have changed so much in education, and they're under just a tremendous amount of pressure, and change happening so super important on the the children's book side, we have just, again, just been so excited to work with folks who, you know, kind of have a, like a bigger mission for why they're doing this, right? There's a they have a kind of a bigger story to tell in some way. So a gift called Shane, for example. The author is Ricky waters, who played in, I think, two or three, three different NFL teams won the Super Bowl with the 49 ers. He wrote this story about he actually wrote it originally as a poem. So he writes poetry. He was average poetry when he was a little kid. So he's always written just for himself. And so this book was originally a poem that he wrote about adopting his younger son, and it's told through the eyes of his older son, oh, you know, hearing from, you know, mom and dad that they're going to be, you know, welcoming, you know, a new brother into the family. And you know, kind of what that experience was like through the older the older brother, he was still kid when they adopted the the younger son, but told through the eyes of of the big brother about, you know, I'm going to get a little brother, and I'm, you know, so excited, and I can't wait to be the big brother. And like, show, you know, protect him and and show him the way. And, and it's just, so, it's such a lovely, story and and so well written that he put this, put this together, and wanted to turn it into a children's picture book. It

Erin Brinker: 52:49

is beautifully illustrated. Yes, so beautifully

Unknown: 52:53

any Weber did the illustrations on that. She does a very kind of painterly quality, which is really lovely. But, you know, part of this for for Ricky is it's, you know, it's their family story, and he's very passionate about it. But they also really, he really wanted to have this story out there as a way to kind of, you know, kind of foster more of the work that he's doing in the foster community with with other young people. He's always out. He himself went through the foster system as a as a young boy and was adopted. And so he kind of, you know, he he does a lot of work in that space with young people, and he wanted to have a story that, really, you know, shared his own unique story that he could, you know, tell as part of that work and help to kind of bring more visibility to some of these nonprofits in particular. So it's been it was really fun to partner. I bet it was

Erin Brinker: 53:50

fun. It was definitely want to get this. One of the things I did not mention is I'm on the board for the Inland Empire children's book project, and we get books in the hands of kids throughout the 10s of 1000s of books in the hands of kids throughout the San Bernardino City and Rialto Unified School Districts. And I love stories like this, because, you know, I think a lot of the students that will that will end up with this book will relate to it and and see themselves in the book, and how wonderful that is.

Conni Francini: 54:18

Yeah, because this is great story of, you know, of family and love, belonging, you know. And I think even, even for anyone who hasn't been in that specific situation, I think there's so much to take

Erin Brinker: 54:31

away, indeed, yeah, so what about the dog and his boy the switch?

Conni Francini: 54:37

Yeah, a dog and his boy the switch. This is, this is so this is such a cute book. We've just tremendous response from this one already. Kids are really loving it. So it's a middle grades fiction book, kind of for that third to sixth grade, you know, reading range. And it's a, it's a Trading Places story. So, you know, this the movie Freaky Friday. Yes, alright. The reboot is coming out soon. So it's sort of, you know, the construct of a freaky Friday between a dog and a boy. So not to do, not to give anything away, but they through a sort of, you know, mysterious happenstance. They the dog and the boy trade bodies. Wow. And that sounds so good. The dog is walking around inside, is in the boy's body going to school, and the boy is now in the dog's body, right, sniffing the grass and and, you know, clamoring for cookies, and all sorts of other, you know, doggy kind of and the whole, you know, the whole premise is like, how can they, how will they get back? How will they trade back? Right? And so, of course, they, you know, they explores their friendship along the way of how they are trying to switch back and, and won't give away the the ending, but super fast read. It's really fun, really fast paced, Punchy. Very age, you know, has all the things that kids that age are really drawn to, you know, I think, as a former classroom teacher, I would say, if we want kids to read for fun, want them to read for enjoyment, let's give them something fun to read. Thank you. This book, just like, right away, you know, boys and girls. This is not, you know, but this is a fun, funny book that that really touches on, you know, again, friendship and perseverance and family. There's just a great little themes in there. I think that would even be valuable in, you know, in the classroom, right, connecting to other literacy units and things like that. So,

Erin Brinker: 56:34

yeah, really, absolutely love it. Absolutely, absolutely love it. Well, we are about out of time. Connie francini, tell us. Tell people how they can find you on social media, how they can find more about Soro publishing and, you know, maybe, maybe write their first book.

Conni Francini: 56:50

Absolutely. As you can see, I love to, I love to talk book ideas. So if anyone has you know questions or you know ideas at all, feel free to reach out to me on I'm on LinkedIn. You can definitely submit any inquiries or proposals book submissions through our website. It's Soro publishing, com, S O, R O, that is Latin for Sister, short Latin for Sister, by the way. Or we're also on Instagram, sorrow publishing, and Facebook and LinkedIn as well. You can follow us there, and but as I said, I'd be delighted to to talk to anyone who who has some publishing aspirations and wants a little guidance.

Erin Brinker: 57:31

Well, Connie francini, you are delight. This has been so much fun, and I can't wait to read these books, and there's a lot more on your website. And thank you so much for joining me today. Thank you, Erin. It was so much fun, but that is about all we have time for today. I'm Erin Brinker. You've been listening to the making hope happen radio show. For more information about the making hope happen Foundation, go to www.makinghope.org That's www.makinghope.org Have a great week, everybody, and I'll talk to you next

Noraly Sainz: 58:01

week. Hi. My name is Noraly Sainz, and I am Program Coordinator at uplift San Bernardino, a collective impact initiative at the making hope happen Foundation. And this is my story in November of 2017 my husband, our four young sons and I moved away from our families to San Bernardino with the hope of reaching our goal of home ownership in 2018 as our oldest son started kindergarten, I connected with the school district and learned about making hope happens Kids program with my oldest in kindergarten and my twins at preschool. I had the opportunity to tote my youngest to the kids parenting classes in January of 2020, my husband and our family's breadwinner unexpectedly passed away. I found myself in a pandemic with my sons in an uncertain future. It was then that that oasis that I found at kids turned into my support system, as the staff and friends rallied around me while my sons and I struggled to find our new normal. In October of 2020 after seven years as a homemaker, I joined the making hope happen foundation as a program coordinator for uplift San Bernardino. This career opportunity reignited my family's dream of home ownership in November of 2022 through the mutual support of the uplift San Bernardino Housing Network, my family was able to buy our first home in my role as program coordinator, and as I connect with other families in our community, I can wholeheartedly attest to the opportunities that the foundation is bringing to our community and truly making hope happen.

Erin Brinker: 59:32

For more information about the making hope happen foundation and to make a donation, please visit www.makinghope.org That's www.makinghope.org your donations make our work possible. You.